"Holy Grail"

[pacificpikachu]

I know it's petty and dumb, but I still get a little annoyed about the overuse of the word "grail" on pkmncollectors. I see people say they've been seeking their grail for "weeks" or "a few months," and oftentimes it's an item I've seen for sale many, many times. Sometimes it's even something that came out recently, sometimes even something available on Sunyshore, and often it's just something uncommon at best, or something more expensive than the person can afford at the time.

I don't think it's ever worth bringing up on the community or to the users misusing the term (in my opinion); it's a pet peeve, and bringing it up would be unnecessarily nitpicky and pointless. Who am I to say what an item means to someone? I also understand that a collector's ideas of what constitutes rare, expensive, etc., change a lot over time, and most of these people are newer collectors, or younger members who don't have jobs, or people who have never even ventured on to Yahoo! Japan. So, in a way, I'm understanding, and I'm not really judging them. But, it still annoys me a bit.

I guess it's just because I sought my grail for years (and here I'm referring to the Umbreon Pokémon Mini strap, though my other major grail is similarly rare). It only popped up a few times ever, despite feverish and very detailed modes of searching (many Japanese search terms, looking through lots, even searching by the release date, misspellings of the Pokémon's name, searching foreign Ebay sites). I spent countless hours looking for it. If one disappeared, it would be years until I would find another. To me, a grail is something that is so rare, or gets away so many times (not because it pops up that often, just over time), that you start to wonder if you'll ever get it. So, maybe it doesn't exactly match up with the term "holy grail" used in a non-collecting sense, which literally may or may not exist and there are only legends (though, those kinds of things exist in collecting, too, like Growly's Growlithe plush search), but at least it's closer.

I get that grail is a dramatic word--people want to be searching for their grail, meaning their highest want. If you're a new collector, you go look on Google at your favorite Pokémon, see something you love and want, and say, "THAT is my grail!" It's fine; I don't hold it against them, because it's silly to for something so petty. But, it does sort of cheapen the word for those of us who have sought an item for years, searching and wondering, "Will it ever pop up again?"

How do you all feel about it, if you have an opinion?

Comments

[kyogres.livejournal.com]

The misuse of the term "grail" is a pet peeve of mine too. I admit that I probably over-used it when I was new to the comm, but that's because I had no idea that Y!J existed. There were items I had been searching for for 3-4 years, then found within a month or two as soon as I learned how to search Y!J; my "super rare" item was really more along the "uncommon" lines, but I would have never guessed that based solely on English auction sites.

I try not to use the term "grail" too lightly these days, though I do have one "grail" that may not be proper grail material. (I am calling it a grail/mini-grail anyway because, even though it would be cheap if/when it ever pops up, it is an AG-era item and is ridiculously hard to find. Like, up until a few days ago, I was not even 100% sure that it existed, and I have been looking for it since 2009.)

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

It being such a common misuse, I can't fault anyone for it, especially new users, though I do reserve the right to roll my eyes a little harmlessly and say to myself, "That is not grail material!" Yeah, I think Y!J access really changes a person's perspective, especially because I've been using it for six years now, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what fits in which categories as far as rarity goes. I do try to keep in mind that not everyone has that perspective.

I don't think I ever misused the term (though, I can't remember after all these years, maybe I did). But I was around when the comm was created (actually, the discussion that pkmncollectors was created from was started by an online friend of mine who I still talk to), so I think I saw the origin of the term and how it was used in the very beginning, which is more the definition I go with.

Oh, what is that grail of yours? I like looking out for people just in case! That sounds grail-worthy to me. A grail doesn't always have to be expensive--ridiculously rare is fine as well. :D

Edit: wow, that image was huge. Sorry about that.

[kyogres.livejournal.com]

My remaining grail is the Kyogre coin from this sheet, seen on the far right.

Toz just linked me to that photo this week. Prior to that photo, all I had to go on was this random Groudon coin that I won in a GA years ago:


I've had the hardest time finding these coins on Y!J, especially the ones that have the additional sparkly layer inside of them. I see the non-sparkly Grovyle/Marshtomp set all the time, but this is the first time I've ever seen the sparkly Hoenn legends set pop up on Y!J. Of course, it's possible that I am not using the right search terms. I search "trading coins" most frequently, which is the official name afaik, but never get many results. I've also tried searching "color changing coins" and "thermal coins" in the past with slightly better results, though I can't remember the kanji at the moment.

Re: Edit: wow, that image was huge. Sorry about that.

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yes, I remember you posting about this before! It's very pretty, and I'll be looking out for it! I agree, these kinds of AG releases, along with the metal figures and some of the TOMY figures, are quite rare indeed. I can imagine it would be hard to come across!

I'll be keeping an eye out for it!

Re: Edit: wow, that image was huge. Sorry about that.

[kyogres.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

" (actually, the discussion that pkmncollectors was created from was started by an online friend of mine who I still talk to)"

wha? XD

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

If I'm remembering clearly, and I think I am, my friend (who no longer has an LJ) posted to pokemon saying she was a little annoyed at how much the community was being taken over by merchandise/sales related posts, which lead to a big discussion and the creation of pkmncollectors! (Which she later became a member of, haha.)

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

oh, yes, that is why we left. it sounded like you meant there was some discussion with badger, who actually made the comm.


and yeah, to be honest, i've always chuckled about those who complained, because the instant we left.. pokemon comm died. and has never come back.

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm glad I'm remembering it correctly! And I remember Badger, we talk on Tumblr now! :D

This is definitely true! I remember pokemon used to be bustling, and now it rarely gets any activity at all, versus pkmncollectors never-ending activity.

It's been an amazing ride from the very beginning to where we are now, hasn't it? ♥

[pheonixxfoxx.livejournal.com]

I agree with you and feel 100% the same way. To me a "grail" worthy item is something a collector has spent years tracking down or something very limited. Though, it is obvious the word has different meaning to each individual...;)

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's it! It's just silly to see people flinging around the term so much, but people have been doing so for years, and I imagine they will continue to do so. It's okay, I'm not going to freak out about it, but we're all allowed to have our pet peeves. :P

[pheonixxfoxx.livejournal.com]

I know when I first joined pkmncollectors, in my excitement I did my share of noobish things. Though, the word "grail" wasn't used much back then. Yes, we are allowed to have our pet peeves. I certainly have my share of them, LOL!! XD

[lucklessprince.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way! Like you say, it irritates me so when I see collectors who grail items that are easy to find, but are just a bit above what they can pay.
For an instance, I recall a member who posted that an Eevee HQ plush was their grail when those plush were/are EVERYWHERE! @_@

Under my own definition, a grail should definitely be something that is so unspeakably rare/hard to get that, that you only knew of it's existance due to having seen the set listed in text/on an old insert, or found one in a post from years ago XD

Another big pet peeve of mine is when members list an item as grail and then actually obtain it! Only to sell the item off a few days later...I've seen this and it makes me cringe.... >_O

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Exactly! It really bugs me when people post something they call a "grail" that costs, say, $40, and they post wanting it for $20. I understand having a budget, I really do, but I think if it was really a "grail," you'd find a way or save up or something, and it wouldn't be something common enough that you can just barter over it like that... It most annoys me when it's something that's all over the community, all over the internet--everywhere! Like the HQ Eevee, exactly! New releases! I've even seen it applied to things that haven't come out yet.. Can't it just be referred to as a high want, or a #1 want, or something? Ahhh, I guess not. XD

To me, a grail is something that a person believes is unattainable/nearly unattainable due to rarity (and maybe price as well, but rarity should be the #1 factor) after a great deal of searching, i.e., more than two years maybe? But, of course, it can be more flexible than that, because everyone has their own definition and each item is unique in why it's hard to find (or not, in many cases). I don't know if people who have been collecting for a short time are really equipped to call anything a grail yet, unless they've done a lot of research or it's something obviously super difficult to find like the PC giants.

I've never seen that (that I noticed anyway), but...eesh, that's...wow.

[lucklessprince.livejournal.com]

Ugh x__X I know how you feel! The Sneasel TFG unreleased figure is rare but I wouldn't call it a grail since there are practically a hundred in stock on a website for a crazy high price. I agree that I guess the definition of "grail" is different for everyone as well as if it's important enough to be a "grail" then you should also be willing to spend big bucks to obtain it!

As for the Finding Grail and selling it. It was awhile back, but I remember a member has the Whiscash Pokedoll as their grail. The memory is fuzzy, but I recall that that they made a Grail Get! Post that explained that a fellow member helped them to finally be able to get that pokedoll. A couple days or week later, the member was auctioning off the Whiscash Pokedoll b:
I know tough times call for tough measures liking selling off things from your collection, but I don't think I could do that! Especially not a grail! x__X

[derranged.livejournal.com]

I fucking agree with this, holy shit it pisses me off. :C

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

I'd say it just mildly irritates me, but yeah. XD It's definitely grating to long-time collectors, I think. Harmless, but very annoying at times.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I feel the same about it, it annoys me to see the word misused for something that is merely a minor collection goal. I used to get all excited when I saw "grail get" posts, knowing I was about to see something really awesome, but now I don't put any stock into it, especially if it's from a newer member and/or they refer to it in the plural- "got some grails!"

Language evolves with use, but I am disappointed that the word "grail" is diminished through overuse and must have a qualifier put in front of it to give it impact, like "ultimate".

[growly.livejournal.com]

Also, to me, there is no comparative price-shopping for a grail. If you are lucky enough to see it come up for sale/auction, you do everything you can to make it happen because it means that much to you as a collector.

Not everybody is hardcore enough about toys to have a grail, and that's okay. Maybe these people throwing around the term "grail" feel like they have to have one, in order to fit in?

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I can understand grails getting away despite your best efforts (many of us, myself included, have had that happen), but something just plain being outside your price range doesn't make it a grail. It has to do with rarity, and if something is common enough that you're bargain hunting for it, to me that doesn't fall under grail consideration.

It's possible! I think it also just has a good dramatic flair to it. What I think they're expressing is their excitement and desire for the item. But, I think a grail has qualifiers beyond how much you want it. I.E., I really want things that are released all the time (say...I don't know, the Kyun Chara figures), but they're common, so no matter how much I want it, it's not a grail. I can get it whenever I want/whenever I can afford it. A grail is something that you have to hunt long and hard for. In a way, I think a long period of searching fruitlessly, with pitfalls and frustration along the way, is part of what makes a grail a grail, otherwise it just doesn't feel the same...you know?

Even, say, my Umbreon V-chip prototype. It's grail-worthy, rarity-wise, but I can't say I consider it a grail because it kind of just fell in my lap (and actually, I have two of them, though the second time it was the same way).

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Exactly this! I feel the same way--it's a little disappointing to open a "Grail get!" post only to see something fairly common or even just uncommon at best. If you're actually getting more than one grail at once, then either a) you're very very very lucky, or b) they probably weren't really grails. ^^;

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say, though you worded it a bit better. It's a word that means a lot to me, after years of collecting and watching my friends (like you) collecting and getting amazing real grails after years of hunting, searching, anguish, and triumph, so it makes me sad to see it reduced to just things people wanted, period, with no consideration to rarity.

[hebilea.livejournal.com]

For the plural grails in posts, it truly depends. There were times when two of my "grails" suddenly appeared on YJ, so it made me super happy.
Sometimes I am wondering though whether my Mantykes can be called grails (at least the Heartland plush...until it randomly appeared on YJ), because sometimes I wonder whether grail can be something that is sought after by a lot of people, or it's just something that just rarely pops up, because it's a less popular Pokemon.

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

I think it can happen, but it's very rare. That said, I've had unusual things pop up at the same time, though not my actual grails.

Hmmm, I think something is a grail if it's extremely rare and you hunt for it for a very long time, even if it's not popular or expensive. It's just as much defined by the hunt for the item as by rarity of the item itself, I think.

[hebilea.livejournal.com]

If it is for something that's really common or just appeared at the PC not too long ago, then yes, it is ridiculous. I think it's also because people think that since they do not have the moey for it, they can call it a grail.

Other than that, sometimes it can be confusing to me what the word actually means and what items I am looking for are grails.

I think that from my point of view, one that deserves for me to be a grail is the Jackie and Mantyke figure, I have once seen it on YJ for 5000 yen, to which I had super limited money (when I had it, it was gone) and a second one later, to which I lost the auction sadly. Since then, I haven't seen it at all.
One that's not a grail, that could be maybe 1:1 Snivy, there are at least three on YJ now, but I don't want to spend that much on it, so I would say that is what I wouldn't call grail..

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what a lot of people do. It's just silly, though I think it's because they hear the term and think it just means whatever is currently #1 on their wants list, which isn't quite how many of us define it.

It's okay, I can help explain!

A grail comes from the holy grail, which is a mythical item that people have searched for for hundreds of years, unsure of whether it exists or not. Obviously, we're not using exactly that definition, haha. But a grail is an item that a person searches for for a very long time, and waits and waits for it to come up. I'd say it should be something that shows up less (possibly considerably less) than once a year, scouring all of the sites. It's something that you will pay all that you can if it shows up, because it's so rare that you don't know if you'll ever see it again, or it might be years before it shows up again. It has to do with a) the item is extremely rare and almost never pops up, b) the person wants that item so much that they search high and low for it and just hope it'll appear, and c) sometimes these items are very expensive, but not always. Think about things like PC giants, production art/cels, prototypes, or super old/limited releases that there are barely any of.

The Jackie/Mantyke figure is pretty rare--maybe almost grail-worthy but not quite? I have the Ash from that series, actually. The 1/1 Snivy definitely isn't a grail type of item, I'd say, because it's expensive but still shows up pretty often. Price alone doesn't define a grail.

I hope that helps. :D Like I said, the definition is different for everyone, but I think most Pokémon collectors would agree with this more or less?

[hebilea.livejournal.com]

Well, from your description then I think that Jackie and Mantyke figure is definitely something I would call grail. It's just as you said, it depends really on people how they view it. My other grails are clear Snivy kid (that I have seen in two people's collections only) and the shiny Snivy plush...I myself might not be a long collector (I have started collecting since January 7th 2011), but I still think that these things are pretty much grail worthy.

EDIT: Nevermind...I see that Brian still has the shiny Snivy plush, but 400$ is ridiculous...

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Wonderful! I will look out for them for you! :)

[hebilea.livejournal.com]

Hehe, thank you so much, that's super kind of you <333

What are your grails btw (aside from the Umbreon Mini charm that you will be getting)?

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Not a problem! I like looking out for other peoples' grails! It would be such a great feeling to find one for someone!

My other grail is the Pokémon Center giant Lapras plush, which I don't know if I'll ever get. (I'd like Tyranitar as well, and...really any of them to be honest, but those two are my favorites.) I think it's doubtful I'll ever be able to afford one, but you never know, right? I also collect Pokémon cels, and there are some that I would go crazy for if they popped up! (Umbreon, surfing Pikachu, Mew, Eevee...there's quite a few.) But, who knows if they ever will or not, and it's okay if they don't.

[snowflaika.livejournal.com]

Wow people really do that? Calling "grail: something that will most likely pop up again in a week? I can see how irritating that can be... I called only one item from my collection a "grail", in the end it costed me like $20, but I've only seen it in someone else's collection/for sale ONCE since 2008 so I think it counts XD

[pacificpikachu.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it happens more often than you would expect! It's harmless, but can be pretty annoying.

That definitely sounds like a grail to me! That's about how long I hunted for my grail as well. And it's not always about cost, so don't worry about that.