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Mar. 27th, 2008 11:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pacificpikachuWent to an Evolution versus Creationism seminar today, as extra credit for Zoology class!
As a note, I am clearly and firmly on the side of Evolution. That doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing new information from the other side, though, nor does it mean I will disrespect everyone who takes that stance. I don't think any or many of you are, but if you're a Creationist yourself, I hope you're not offended by what I say. As long as you're not trying to stuff it down my throat and have valid reasons for supporting what you do, all the power to you. I just don't support it, sorry.
The seminar was held in a fairly small room off of the cafeteria, and it was jam-packed. I was surprised and a little uncomfortable to discover that I was greatly outnumbered by Creationists, but I know there were definitely a few science teachers and faculty there, along with a couple of fellow science students. So, I felt a little better about that.
The first guy to speak was John Mackay, whose website is here: http://www.creationresearch.net/
I'll admit--this guy was a pretty good speaker, and had a lot of tactics in his arguments that made them difficult to argue against (not because they were valid, but because of how phrased them or how abstracted they were). Of course, he makes his living doing these speeches, so it's to be expected. Despite the fact that I think the majority of what he brought up was unnecessarily gimmicky and...well, incorrect, he had a few points that made me think and were thoughtful. If nothing else, I was glad to see this seminar for those isolated moments where I did think "Huh... That's interesting/that makes sense/that's more open-minded than I expected." I also liked that he definitely had a healthy amount of respect for the other side, and he was upfront about what his beliefs were and how those affect his thinking. Everyone was really silent during his presentation.
The next person to speak was one of the teachers from the Zoology department, Charles Darwin Daly (his name is so perfect for this debate, haha!). Unfortunately, because he's just...well, a teacher, and doesn't give these types of speeches professionally like Mackay does, he wasn't nearly as eloquent. I think this sort of went against him, sadly enough. He had some great points to make, but they weren't presented as well as they could have been, which was unfortunate. :/ Also, I found it really rude when this exchange occurred shortly after Daly went up there:
Daly: [Says something about interpreting the Bible literally and some of the implications that would require. A very good point, actually.]
Elderly Guy in Audience: Oh, please! You think you can say that sort of thing? (Angrily, and might I note he just yelled this out.)
Daly: [Says something polite but firm]
EGiA: *Angrily mutters something*
The audience had to get the guy to be quiet, and one my fellow students said, "We were quiet during your part!", which was oh-so-true. It made me so mad that we were respectful when their guy was up there presenting, but this guy couldn't even be respectful enough not to yell out during the presentation.
The question-and-answer session was kind of...eh. I can't remember too much of it because it was at least around forty-five minutes long, but a few things that stick out follow. One guy, probably around my age, tried to make this really lame counterargument in response to something Daly said about Giant Sloths and the ark, and it was almost embarrassing how much he missed the point of what Daly was saying. D:
At one point, Mackay basically conceded that he believes natural selection is fully real and that he thinks animal populations can diverge and change with time, but then proceeded to say he thinks evolution is false and that there has never been any such thing as an observable example of evolution within our lifetimes. ??? UH, YES HAS BEEN. And how can you claim not to believe in evolution when you basically just said you did?
One of the Philosophy professors made a GREAT argument for the Evolution side, but after that it kind of degenerated into people standing up and saying things like, "Jesus is my personal savior, and he taught me that a wonderful God created the earth, and that's what I know!" Thankfully, it was almost time to leave at that point anyway, so I got up and left before it degenerated further.
Today in Zoology, we were supposed to dissect frogs. Except that my professor was so enthralled with Creationism versus Evolution, she decided to postpone the frog dissection in favor of sitting around and having a philosophical discussion about the seminar for an hour and a half. 8D I approved of this very much, and I spoke up a lot and (I think) brought up some good points. It was very enjoyable and thought-provoking. I actually enjoyed the post-seminar discussion more than the seminar, I believe, because it was more laid-back and less concerned with tactics and gimmicks. Also, much less drama.
Anyway, that was most of my day. I did a few things with mom, but they weren't noteworthy.
I'm trying to encode my AMV to a manageable size and I've mostly succeeded, but for some reason some of the panning scenes are all shuddery. :/ Oh well--I'll work on it tomorrow.
As a note, I am clearly and firmly on the side of Evolution. That doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing new information from the other side, though, nor does it mean I will disrespect everyone who takes that stance. I don't think any or many of you are, but if you're a Creationist yourself, I hope you're not offended by what I say. As long as you're not trying to stuff it down my throat and have valid reasons for supporting what you do, all the power to you. I just don't support it, sorry.
The seminar was held in a fairly small room off of the cafeteria, and it was jam-packed. I was surprised and a little uncomfortable to discover that I was greatly outnumbered by Creationists, but I know there were definitely a few science teachers and faculty there, along with a couple of fellow science students. So, I felt a little better about that.
The first guy to speak was John Mackay, whose website is here: http://www.creationresearch.net/
I'll admit--this guy was a pretty good speaker, and had a lot of tactics in his arguments that made them difficult to argue against (not because they were valid, but because of how phrased them or how abstracted they were). Of course, he makes his living doing these speeches, so it's to be expected. Despite the fact that I think the majority of what he brought up was unnecessarily gimmicky and...well, incorrect, he had a few points that made me think and were thoughtful. If nothing else, I was glad to see this seminar for those isolated moments where I did think "Huh... That's interesting/that makes sense/that's more open-minded than I expected." I also liked that he definitely had a healthy amount of respect for the other side, and he was upfront about what his beliefs were and how those affect his thinking. Everyone was really silent during his presentation.
The next person to speak was one of the teachers from the Zoology department, Charles Darwin Daly (his name is so perfect for this debate, haha!). Unfortunately, because he's just...well, a teacher, and doesn't give these types of speeches professionally like Mackay does, he wasn't nearly as eloquent. I think this sort of went against him, sadly enough. He had some great points to make, but they weren't presented as well as they could have been, which was unfortunate. :/ Also, I found it really rude when this exchange occurred shortly after Daly went up there:
Daly: [Says something about interpreting the Bible literally and some of the implications that would require. A very good point, actually.]
Elderly Guy in Audience: Oh, please! You think you can say that sort of thing? (Angrily, and might I note he just yelled this out.)
Daly: [Says something polite but firm]
EGiA: *Angrily mutters something*
The audience had to get the guy to be quiet, and one my fellow students said, "We were quiet during your part!", which was oh-so-true. It made me so mad that we were respectful when their guy was up there presenting, but this guy couldn't even be respectful enough not to yell out during the presentation.
The question-and-answer session was kind of...eh. I can't remember too much of it because it was at least around forty-five minutes long, but a few things that stick out follow. One guy, probably around my age, tried to make this really lame counterargument in response to something Daly said about Giant Sloths and the ark, and it was almost embarrassing how much he missed the point of what Daly was saying. D:
At one point, Mackay basically conceded that he believes natural selection is fully real and that he thinks animal populations can diverge and change with time, but then proceeded to say he thinks evolution is false and that there has never been any such thing as an observable example of evolution within our lifetimes. ??? UH, YES HAS BEEN. And how can you claim not to believe in evolution when you basically just said you did?
One of the Philosophy professors made a GREAT argument for the Evolution side, but after that it kind of degenerated into people standing up and saying things like, "Jesus is my personal savior, and he taught me that a wonderful God created the earth, and that's what I know!" Thankfully, it was almost time to leave at that point anyway, so I got up and left before it degenerated further.
Today in Zoology, we were supposed to dissect frogs. Except that my professor was so enthralled with Creationism versus Evolution, she decided to postpone the frog dissection in favor of sitting around and having a philosophical discussion about the seminar for an hour and a half. 8D I approved of this very much, and I spoke up a lot and (I think) brought up some good points. It was very enjoyable and thought-provoking. I actually enjoyed the post-seminar discussion more than the seminar, I believe, because it was more laid-back and less concerned with tactics and gimmicks. Also, much less drama.
Anyway, that was most of my day. I did a few things with mom, but they weren't noteworthy.
I'm trying to encode my AMV to a manageable size and I've mostly succeeded, but for some reason some of the panning scenes are all shuddery. :/ Oh well--I'll work on it tomorrow.
